Southern Oregon Real Estate Show with Grants Pass Community Development Department

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Real Estate Show with Grants Pass Community Development Department

Alice Lema: [00:00:00] Well, good morning, Southern Oregon and welcome back to the Real Estate Show. So happy you could be with us again today in this beautiful Thanksgiving weekend. I'm Alice Lema. I'm a broker here at John L. Scott Real Estate in beautiful Southern Oregon, and today we get to talk to you, Mr. Bradley Clark. Bradley Clark is a community development director in Grants Pass, and we're gonna ask him all kinds of questions about economic development.

We're gonna ask him about building and permits and how has 2022 faired with some of our more recent years as far as building and development. We're also. Gonna ask him about Air B&B development in Grant's Pass. See how all that's going? Lots and lots to talk about. Brad Clark, community Development director of Grant's Pass is on the show with us today. We're so happy.

Before we get to our interview with Brad, wanna touch briefly on the stats, like we like [00:01:00] to do now. It's a short, was a short week , so we only have about three days of data instead of the usual five. But I did wanna mention that we're up in our prices, but down in our sales we talk about this frequently. Just wanna give you some numbers that, for example Jackson County is down 7% year to date for numbers sold, but the prices are up 5%. So Jackson County down 7% in sales year to date up 5% in price. It's just not our normal thing, right?

Josephine County is down 10% in sales year to date. Up 5% in price, so that's interesting. Josephine County is also up 5% [00:02:00] in price from last year, but their sales in Josephine County are down 10%. Klamath County is down 11% in sales and up 8% in price. So very interesting trend here. We're still showing. A shortage. We're still showing a shortage and the prices are still up. The prices are not up as much as they were, but but they're still up. So that's our weekly update for the stats we're gonna jump into.

Well, good morning, Southern Oregon. Welcome back to the Real Estate Show. So glad you could join us today on this holiday weekend. I'm talking to Bradley Clark, the Community Development Director in Grant's Pass. Hi Bradley.

Bradley Clark: Good morning.

Alice Lema: Yeah, thank you so much for doing this. We really appreciate it. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your position and what community development directors do in Grants Pass.

Bradley Clark: [00:03:00] Absolutely. Well, Appreciate you having me on. It's nice to be here and yeah, I, I just as a side note, before we get into it, I will say that John L. Scott was my, was my real estate agent in Emmett Idaho. And help me, help me sell my house in Emmett before before I moved to Washington State and then moved to Southern Oregon.

Alice Lema: So, Oh wow.

Bradley Clark: So Good, good positive vibes with John L. Scott.

Alice Lema: That is awesome. We've never had somebody say that before. Thank you, . Yeah.

Bradley Clark: Yeah. The agent that I worked with is actually on the city council there and Emmett and Michelle Welch, and she's still there doing great work, so.

Alice Lema: Oh, we'll send her a note. Thank you for those kudos.

Bradley Clark: Yeah, yeah. No, I I. Background is in land use planning primarily. But I was hired by the city of Grants Pass in 2019 to be the planning manager or the principal planner. And then Laura Glover, who had been the community development director in the Grants Pass for, I don't know, six or seven years probably. She decided to retire which she had been wanting to do for quite some [00:04:00] time, and I applied for that position. And so took on the community development director role in September of 29, 2020.

Yeah. And then as I mentioned prior to that, I, I spent about 18 years in Idaho at a couple of different jurisdictions there, mainly as the community development director for Jim County and the city of Emmett. And then I was in Bellevue, Washington. I worked for King County there for about four years.

So yeah, that was a, that was a shocker of a change cuz gem County had a grand total population of 18,000 people. Oh. And moved to King County and they're 2.2 million. So, so . Yeah. So that, that was, that was a culture shock. Took some getting used to. Needless to say my wife and I have always appreciated and enjoyed the the outdoors and so, you know, kind of smaller communities.

So we were looking for a place to sort of hang our hat before we yeah [00:05:00] sail off into the retirement sunset and about 10 years. And you know, we just have always enjoyed Southern Oregon. So this is where we ended.

Alice Lema: Well, welcome to the Banana Belt of the Northwest . Yeah. So to speak. Well, planning is such an interesting interesting, I don't wanna call it a business cuz it's not a business. But the impact that it has on our real estate and our lifestyle is huge. And Oregon been known for a long time to be a as Washington, to be more progressive and thoughtful about how their communities are planned. So for a community development director, we were talking a little bit before the show, you actually have a lot of different jobs under that umbrella of community development.

Bradley Clark: We do, we do. Yeah. And that, that will vary, you know, from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. But for here in the city of Grants, past community development incorporates land use planning as you said. And it also has building [00:06:00] and economic development, which includes tourism as. And then Parks.

Mm-hmm. , and that's, that's a little bit of the unique one that will sometimes be in public works or maybe a standalone department. But here in Grants Pass it's, it's also under community development. So we have yeah, we have a team of 28 people and they're just amazing. You know, local government professionals who I've just in my short time here, have just been so impressed with how they want to really, you know, provide the best quality local government service that they possibly can to, to people of Grants Pass.

So it's, it's you know, really truly been a, a joy to, to get to know the team here and and work with them and see all the good work that's been happening.

Alice Lema: So there's so much that goes on in all of those different categories of conversation. One of the things that's been big on people's minds this whole year is the housing shortage and what each community is trying to do to help [00:07:00] alleviate that. Do you wanna give us some thoughts about what Grants Pass is wanting to do?

Bradley Clark: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. This is By no means a Grants Pass issue. It is, it is a, a west coast, I think especially West Coast, but, but across the country in different pockets. So as you know, you, you, I think you really, truly have to be, have been living under a rock to not understand that you know, the significance of housing and our city council here has taken it very seriously, I would say the last four or five years. They've put a lot of time and energy towards it. We have a strategic plan that is adopted every January in Grants Pass, that the city manager helps to facilitate the, the eight city Councilors and mayor through strategic planning process where they set usually between like 35 and 50 different activities and goals and objectives.

And housing, if you look at [00:08:00] that document has risen to the top and really been number one in terms of where they want to put their, their energies and address, not, not to the demise of others by any means, but The, the work locally, I would say kind of falls into a couple of different categories in terms of, you know, how to address it.

One is, is compliance with state statute. So as you probably know, the middle housing, so-called middle housing code that the legislature adopted a few years ago which kicked in, in July 1st of this year, mandates that communities of of our size of 10,000 population or above allow for duplexes, triplexes, and quadplexes anywhere where we allow single family detached dwellings. So regardless of what the zoning is locally, if it's your basic for us, you know, the lowest density zone that we have is an R12 and that R [00:09:00] one 12 has is, you know, 11,000 square foot minimum lot size and has historically, you know, you just have one single family house on there, maybe an accessory dwelling unit.

Well, this, this legislation now requires us to allow for a duplex, a triplex, a quadplex, cottage housing, and town homes. There's, there's five, what they call middle housing. It's those five different types of housing anywhere even in those lowest density zone, like, like r r one 12. So that, we can talk more about that if you'd like.

But basically that's, that's one of the main things that we're doing. There's, there's that rule. There's also a legislation related to to rent burden. And so we, we are identified along with Ashland and, and several other communities as being severely rent burdened. So our population has over 30% of our renters pay more than 30% of their gross income on housing costs.

So those are two kind of big [00:10:00] pieces of state legislation. From the state legislation though we also have some things locally. The council has been, has dedicated almost half of its ARPA funding, uhhuh American Rescue Plan Act to housing initiatives. So they, they made that decision about a year ago.

They have also chosen to put over 10 million of urban renewal agency money towards housing. That's over the course of 30 years. You know, we have a 30 year plan, but, Oh, so this isn't like, so it's a lot of money. Still a lot of money. Still a lot of money.

Alice Lema: Yeah. We're not, we're not griping about that.

Bradley Clark: Yes. And then, Another piece that they have done which kicked in, in, in January of this year was a construction excise tax c e t. And that is a, that is a tax that the Oregon State Legislature enabled in 2017. Which, which basically said local governments can locally adopt a construction excise tax to create a [00:11:00] fund that is just used to support affordable housing.

Alice Lema: So how does that money get distributed? So, or is it still too new?

Bradley Clark: It, we have not distributed any yet because yeah, we just started collecting it in March. It's, it's a half percent of your building permit valuation for residential. Okay? So what, whatever, whatever the value of your building permit is over 50,000.

We don't, we don't charge it on building permits that, that are under $50,000. But, but if your, if your project is valued at $50,000 or above, and then a half percent of whatever that is, Does go into this fund. And then for commercial and industrial projects, it's 1% of valuation. So yeah, the, the council just talked about this on Monday, actually at a, at a workshop that they had in terms of your quest, your question about, you know, how does it get distributed?

So it hasn't been formalized, but they're leaning pretty heavily towards [00:12:00] a a grant program, basically where we would put out a request for proposal. Maybe once or twice a year that says, you know, hey, there's, there's 200,000 or there's 300,000 sitting in this pot. If you are creating housing, if you're rehabbing housing if you're looking for some assistance with system development charges you know, all those things would be eligible to basically put a proposal in to how you want to use that.

Alice Lema: Wow. There's just so much to ask about this cuz I'm, I'm just dying to know how, how many people are trying to add units to their property. But also wanna talk about just the reaction to the, from the citizens of your area to all these changes. The builders, like, I don't even know where to to go next. There's so much to talk about.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so let's ask that. Where do you wanna go? Yeah, . So let's talk cuz we only have like a minute before we [00:13:00] have to take a break. Do you have any numbers on permits or any permit activity for 2022 yet, or is it too soon?

Bradley Clark: As a matter of fact, I do I did pull that up right before our phone call. For year to date, in calendar year 2022, the city of Grants pass. And of course, this doesn't include any portion of Josephine County outside the city, Uhhuh, but in, in the city limits single family homes, there's been 81 duplexes, 26 multifamily three and manufactured homes three. So 113 new units for 2022.

Alice Lema: Well, and we're gonna talk more about that. We gotta take a quick break. We're talking to Brad Clark, the community Development Director in Grants Fast. Great show, great information. Don't touch that dial. We'll be right back.

Well, hey, everybody. Welcome back to The Real Estate Show. Thanks for joining us. We're talking to Brad Clark, the Community Development Director of Grants Pass, and he [00:14:00] has lots and lots of experience in the Pacific Northwest, and recently came here to work in Grants Pass. We're so glad to have you, Brad. So right before the break we were talking about the number of permits we had a little over a hundred so far for 2022, but that's probably the bulk of it cuz it's almost the end of the year.

Bradley Clark: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We, we, you do tend to see some slowdown, you know, as the, as the weather changes. But, but we're still issuing permits. Okay, we'll, we'll see a few more going out the door. I.

Alice Lema: Okay. So for what's been issued so far, when you look at that, those numbers, those numbers of permits and the different categories you were talking about what do you, what kind of input, feedback do you assess from reading and analyzing that information for 2022?

Bradley Clark: Yeah, well, like we're [00:15:00] going to see, we're gonna be the lowest number most likely in the last two years for sure. You know, we, we issued 182 permits in 2020. We issued 165 last year, you know, and this year looks like we're probably gonna pull in around 120 or so.

Alice Lema: So that was during shutdown. You issued more permits than this year during Covid.

Bradley Clark: Yeah. We did, we saw, we saw zero, zero slow down. Yeah. As a matter of fact there, yeah, there was a bit of an uptick. Oh, . Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, people were at home thinking, what can I do with my, with my house, or my investment, or, you know so the contractors were outside and, and working and yeah. We, as a matter of fact, here at the city, we didn't have a single day that we weren't in the office during covid. Yeah, we did put out the Plexiglas course and we put in other measures, but yeah, it was, yeah.

Yeah. So that's, you know, we're we I certainly think as other jurisdictions are [00:16:00] seeing, and you in the real estate industry, no doubt are seeing the impacts of the increased mortgage rates or interest rate for mortgages. And some of our local developers have, have stated that you know, that that is having an impact on the folks on their wait list. Some people are dropping off, say, Hey, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna wait and see what happens. And, you know, either pulling out of an order or you know, just choosing to to stay where they are for a while to see what happens with the, with the interest rates.

But and then of course, material costs. You know, lumber has had so many ups and downs over the last couple of years. And you know, that's, that's having some effect. So the platting of land is another indicator that we look at you know, how many, how many new lots are in the pipeline.

Alice Lema: Can you take one, one quick second and just briefly define Plat, cuz not everybody knows what that means.

Bradley Clark: Oh, sure. So there's a subdivision plat, or a partition plat is basically, you know, the, [00:17:00] the land division the, the taking a, a single parcel of land and dividing that into multiple, multiple pieces.

And a partition in Grant's Pass is, is 3 lots or less. And then if you do four lots or more, that's the subdivision and that's consistent with Oregon statute. So most, you know, communities have that same definition, but so yeah, those are ways that you can create new building lots and. We, we have probably around 350 or so that are in the process right now of, of being created.

Alice Lema: That's a lot. That's quite a few.

Bradley Clark: Yeah. Yeah. So they're, they're, they've, you know, they've come in the door, they've said, you know, here's our, here's our design. Here's our money. you know yeah. Here's the money, you know, here's where we're gonna put the sewer, here's where we're gonna put the water. And gone through that much of a process, but they haven't actually, you know, gone to the county courthouse and recorded their plats, so they're not actually able to sell them yet.

So there's that, [00:18:00] you know, you can't sell one of those new lots until it's actually been recorded at the courthouse, so, right. But we still see it as an important, I mean, if, if, if the landowner developer goes as far as, most of these do, they're, it's pretty rare that they're gonna pull out unless you have like a 2008 recession or something.

Alice Lema: Yeah. So that's a really interesting number. Over 300 applications for partition or to subdivide. And, and, Do you count one like homeowner who's just dividing their yard in half as a partition, the same as a subdivision that's doing 16 houses. It's the same. We're using the same word, right?

Bradley Clark: We are. We are. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And that's, and that's 350 lots, not 350 applications, just to be clear.

Alice Lema: 350 lots. Yeah. So are you surprised at that?

Bradley Clark: You know, I, I wouldn't say I'm surprised. I mean, that's that's been fairly consistent in the last five years, at least the data that we

Alice Lema: Oh, okay. So that's not any great [00:19:00] shakes for you guys then?

Bradley Clark: Yeah. You know, we, that doesn't mean that somebody you know, we'll actually complete, some of 'em may end up dropping out of the, of the application process, but, mm-hmm. , you know, it's, and some of those are going to be strictly for duplexes. So, you know, that's one lot will hold two units. So, you know, it's it's an indicator.

But you know, in this world it's just, it's just one until they actually get the house built, it's not, it's not worth much to those people that are looking for housing.

Alice Lema: Yeah. And it's kind of a lengthy process, isn't it?

Bradley Clark: It is. It is from the time that, you know, you buy a piece of land and you say, yeah, I wanna subdivide and put in the streets and curb got sidewalk and put in all your sewer and water and storm water and yeah, it, it, depending on how many lots you're creating and how deep your pockets.

I

Alice Lema: know , your dreams have been your dreams. Yep.

Bradley Clark: Yeah, it can take a while.

Alice Lema: So in solving the [00:20:00] housing shortage, one of the pressures that we're seeing on the real estate side is people are choosing to use their rentals for short term, what we call traveler Air B&B executive housing instead. Our normal vanilla long term rental. So how is Grants Pass, you know, and your office addressing that, that phenomena?

Bradley Clark: Yeah, yeah. We, we refer to 'em as vacation rental dwellings. Here in Grants Pass are, are our development code defines them as 27 days or less in a 30, you know, in a 30 day period. So that's, that is a, basically a short term vacation, rental, dwelling, you know, Air B&B, something like that.

And we do since 2017 have required a, a separate land use application to actually get them approved. Whether you using Air B & B or [00:21:00] V R B O or you know, which platform you're using. Doesn't really matter, even no platform at all. If you're going to advertise it for short term rental, then you do have to come in and we do notice the immediate neighbors around that unit, so they do have a chance to comment on it.

I did pull out those numbers. We've, we've issued 12 of them this year. We issued 10 of them last. It looks like 14 the year before. So we're, you know, we're ranging between nine, 10 to 14 or 15 a year. Most commonly we're seeing 'em in, in older homes and usually smaller. But this last year we did, we did have a couple of five bedroom houses that converted to vacation rental dwellings.

A couple of 'em had pools you know, so they're kind of seeing them market to you know, maybe larger groups or something like that. You know is there concern around them, I would say depending on the neighborhood, yes. We have had some [00:22:00] opposition concerns about the character of the neighborhood.

You know, when, when you have somebody advertising, you know, on national platforms to, hey, come to Grant's Pass and use this house for your free vacation rental. You know, when it's used by nurse traveling nurses. You know, some other traveling professionals in the software industry less of a concern. You know, those are usually pretty quiet, one or two people at the most in them.

Alice Lema: Traveling scientists from BLM . Right, right. We presume they're gonna be super quiet too , right?

Bradley Clark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they're you know, depending on who you talk to they, they can be a concern. We haven't seen 'em rise to the level of a, of some resort communities. For example, I know in, in Idaho where I used to work the Ketchum and Sun Valley area in central Idaho is has, has actually put moratoriums on them from time to time. Just, you know, they're, they're taking them out of the regular housing. As you pointed out, and you know, [00:23:00] for, for us where we have thousands of dwelling units and less of a of an economy where people are just coming here to ski or something like that, it's it, it hasn't risen to a I would say a red light blinking red light concern. But it, it certainly is something we're watching closely to see how many, how new short term rentals continue to, to get put into the market and, and which neighborhoods they're popping up in.

Alice Lema: So yeah, cuz the pace of those vacation rentals gives us some warning if we're gonna have an even bigger problem in our regular long term rental rental pool. So yeah, the, it's, it's just hard. It's just hard right now in Southern Oregon. But with all these new permits and some number of them being for duplexes, do you predict, or when would you predict that some of these units will be in the market and housing people and then the shortage will subside a little, or at least the feeling of the shortage would [00:24:00] subside a little. When do you think that'll happen? Well, or is that two, two blue sky a questions?

Bradley Clark: I put my crystal ball away quite a while ago. Okay. Yeah. I will say that you know, the, the median home price here in grants past the median rental price continues to, to just. Really be out of reach for, you know, about half of our population because of the medium income.

So, so that gap between the median income and the median rental or medium purchase price continues to just be the, you know, a significant barrier. And so that's why we're excited in community development to be working also on the economic development. Because, you know, really doing what, what whatever we can to help incentivize and facilitate you know, those job creators that can really help to increase the number of jobs that are paying.

Alice Lema: That's our next [00:25:00] topic. So hold that thought, Brad. We're talking to Brad Clark, the Community Development Director. Grants Pass. We're gonna have to take a quick break. We wanna say thank you to our sponsors, John L. Scott, Ashland, Medford, Guy Giles Mutual of Omaha Mortgage, and our local Rogue Valley Association of Realtors. We thank you for sponsoring us so that we can bring you this show every single week. It's a great educational experience for our listeners, so stay tuned. We'll be right.

Well, welcome back to the Real Estate Show, folks. I'm Alice Lema. I'm a broker here in beautiful southern Oregon with John L. Scott Real Estate and have the huge pleasure of interviewing Brad Clark, the Community Development Director in Grants Pass, Oregon.

Brad, right before the break, we were talking a little bit about how economic development really impacts housing because of wages, I think is what we were about to mention next. Is that right?

Bradley Clark: Yes. Yes it is. And As you and your listeners know, I mean, there's a lot of McDonald's signs around that [00:26:00] say, $15 an hour, or, you know, taco Bell at $16 an hour.

And, you know, certainly those are helping folks. But, you know, if, if you're looking to buy a $330,000 house, it's not gonna cut it. So, you know, it's, it's either finding roommates or living with family. Finding some kind of alternative housing style or product out there. So, you know, we're doing what we can to incentivize those, those developers who do work kind of at the, bringing in housing that you know, has some kind of subsidy.

Although we're not focused on that, there's really no other way at this point on the, on the supply side. You know, to, to get the, to, to get the housing at a point where a lot of those folks around that minimum wage can, can get into housing. But yeah, on the on, on the, on the demand side you know, it's really about increasing their ability to qualify. Right. And whether they wanna get a rent, get the rent deposit, which anymore is [00:27:00] can, can be significant. You know, if something says

Alice Lema: Yeah. Several thousand dollars Yeah. For rent deposits.

Bradley Clark: Yeah. So a lot of times that's what we're hearing is can be one of the main barriers. So, you know, how do you get that? Well, it's, you know, increasing the opportunities for jobs that pay more than the minimum wage. So that's much, much more difficult to do than it sounds. And, you know, we're fortunate to have Asante and a master brand cabinets and rogue Valley door and you know, lots of other businesses that, that are paying good livable wage jobs.

But we need more. And some of that's just working through our economic development manager and you know, to, to get the get the back, get the word out to folks that Grants Pass is business friendly. And we want to see You know, employers consider us at least, and ideally, you know, come in and get a permit and [00:28:00] actually start building and, and creating opportunities for jobs.

So you know, that's, that's a lot of networking. It involves a lot of connecting with folks like Soretti Southern Oregon.

Alice Lema: Oh, they're great. Economic. Yeah. They work so hard those people. Yeah.

Bradley Clark: Yeah. So they're we've been a member of, Soretti, Since the beginning. We were one of the founding members and yes, we rely on them heavily.

And, and, and then, you know, coordinating with Chamber of Commerce, we have a very active Chamber of Commerce here in Grants Pass, Josephine County, as well as our small business development center with Rogue Community College.

Alice Lema: Well, I bet people don't, don't know that Grants Pass is so business friendly. I bet that's gonna be news to a lot of people.

Bradley Clark: Oh, well let's get it out .

Alice Lema: So in addition to you know, trying to piece together a little more supply for housing and some better wages and better business environment what other possibilities are there [00:29:00] in Grants Pass to kind of help help the situation? Yeah.

Bradley Clark: One of the tools that we have is our Urban Renewal Agency and that's that's been in place since 2016. Here in Grants Pass, it encompasses about 1300 acres. It's a pretty broad area, kind of going from I five down from sixth and seventh, you know, into downtown. And then it all goes out east towards the Fred Meyer area.

There's, you know, E and F Street, we have some industrial lands there. And then, and then the old Spalding Mill site which is out on the east part of town, which has had some development in the last 78 years. But there's still a lot of land that's vacant out there in Industrial Park. So we, we are really trying to leverage some of our general fund money, but also some other grants and some Brownfield money, which is a federal program to, you know, clean up some of that and be able to get sewer and water out there to, to the Spalding area, [00:30:00] so so that's one thing.

And then the urban, so the Urban Renewal Agency does offer assistance for infrastructure, you know putting in a new sewer or putting in water, putting in a, you know, some kind of new new street.

Alice Lema: So people can get help paying for that?

Bradley Clark: They can, they can. As, as long as they're within the boundaries of that 1300 acres or so. Yeah.

Alice Lema: Okay. That's super cool.

Bradley Clark: Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's one tool we have. We also have some other, you know, like light up your storefront grants security camera grants other smaller that system development charge grants that can help out some of our smaller business owners who and maybe just want to expand where they are, or you know, are looking to relocate in, in town. This is, provides some just a small assistance you know, that can sometimes just help push 'em over the fill in that gap a little bit.

Alice Lema: Wow. grants are available from a variety of sources in the Grants Pass area, to help people offset some of the fees for expansion or development. [00:31:00] Yeah, that's super exciting. How do people find out about those grants? And, and the logistics of, of all that?

Bradley Clark: Yeah. On our city of Grants past website, if you just go to the economic development area, then our economic development manager, Dana Pierce, her, her information is there and she can just happy to walk people through the process and you know, help 'em through the application. And some of them go to city council, some of them don't. It just kind of depends on the level of, of re of request. But that's probably the best thing to do is just either call us up, community development or or visit the webpage.

Alice Lema: And I have to say, you guys are awesome about communication. These guys answer their phone, they talk to you, they, they help you through it. The website is fantastic. You know, for, I think a community the size of Grants Pass, you guys are just doing a bang up job of getting this information out to people and just answering the phone. You know, we [00:32:00] get people coming from California and other parts of the country and they're just shocked that anybody answers their phone up here.

Bradley Clark: That's true. Yeah. So thank you for that.

Alice Lema: Yeah. Well yeah, we love Grants Pass. We wanna see more happen up there and we'll just make sure that the businesses get the information and the help they need through these grant programs.

Bradley Clark: Absolutely. Yeah.

Alice Lema: So we only have a few minutes left. Do you wanna give your website address out?

Bradley Clark: Sure. Yeah. www.GrantsPassoregon.gov all spelled out all together. No dashes.gov gov.

Alice Lema: Great. Well Brad, it was really amazing. I hope you have a wonderful rest of the Thanksgiving weekend. Appreciate your time so much. This broadcast will be repeated tomorrow, Sunday at 6:00 PM on KCMX and that's now on FM [00:33:00] 99.5. Just a reminder, the AM tower on eight 80 is gonna be discontinued soon. Have a beautiful weekend. Thanks again. Thank you very much.